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	<title>Comments on: Towards a Future Oracle BI Architecture?</title>
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	<link>http://www.rittmanmead.com/2008/02/12/towards-a-future-oracle-bi-architecture/</link>
	<description>Delivered Intelligence</description>
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		<title>By: Rittman Mead Consulting &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Data Warehouses are not dead, yet</title>
		<link>http://www.rittmanmead.com/2008/02/12/towards-a-future-oracle-bi-architecture/comment-page-1/#comment-4615</link>
		<dc:creator>Rittman Mead Consulting &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Data Warehouses are not dead, yet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 10:22:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rittmanmead.com/wp2/2008/02/12/towards-a-future-oracle-bi-architecture/#comment-4615</guid>
		<description>[...] Mark brought up a similar idea the other week in his &#8216;future BI architecture&#8217; piece which also attracted some good comments. Indirectly, I mentioned alternatives to DWs in my article [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Mark brought up a similar idea the other week in his &#8216;future BI architecture&#8217; piece which also attracted some good comments. Indirectly, I mentioned alternatives to DWs in my article [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Data Warehouses are not dead, yet &#171; Pete Scott&#8217;s random notes</title>
		<link>http://www.rittmanmead.com/2008/02/12/towards-a-future-oracle-bi-architecture/comment-page-1/#comment-4059</link>
		<dc:creator>Data Warehouses are not dead, yet &#171; Pete Scott&#8217;s random notes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Mar 2008 15:49:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rittmanmead.com/wp2/2008/02/12/towards-a-future-oracle-bi-architecture/#comment-4059</guid>
		<description>[...] Mark brought up a similar idea the other week in his &#8216;future BI architecture&#8217; piece which also attracted some good comments. Indirectly, I mentioned alternatives to DWs in my article [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Mark brought up a similar idea the other week in his &#8216;future BI architecture&#8217; piece which also attracted some good comments. Indirectly, I mentioned alternatives to DWs in my article [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Rittman Mead Consulting &#187; A Future Oracle OBIEE Architecture</title>
		<link>http://www.rittmanmead.com/2008/02/12/towards-a-future-oracle-bi-architecture/comment-page-1/#comment-4066</link>
		<dc:creator>Rittman Mead Consulting &#187; A Future Oracle OBIEE Architecture</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 22:18:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rittmanmead.com/wp2/2008/02/12/towards-a-future-oracle-bi-architecture/#comment-4066</guid>
		<description>[...] Comments Stewart Bryson on Towards a Future Oracle BI Architecture?David Aldridge on Towards a Future Oracle BI Architecture?Stuart Wallace on Towards a Future Oracle [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Comments Stewart Bryson on Towards a Future Oracle BI Architecture?David Aldridge on Towards a Future Oracle BI Architecture?Stuart Wallace on Towards a Future Oracle [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Stewart Bryson</title>
		<link>http://www.rittmanmead.com/2008/02/12/towards-a-future-oracle-bi-architecture/comment-page-1/#comment-4061</link>
		<dc:creator>Stewart Bryson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 14:24:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rittmanmead.com/wp2/2008/02/12/towards-a-future-oracle-bi-architecture/#comment-4061</guid>
		<description>Mark:
I agree with your points concerning the difference between the paradigm you described and the Wherescape one. And once again... what I know of the product is from the marketing guys combined with a project manager with very little technical information. Where it does resemble what you are describing a little closer is that the end result is a comprehensive metadata layer. For Red, that layer is manifested in terms of load routines... for OBIEE, it is a data access layer. You mentioned that perhaps OBIEE could offer both in the future... the &quot;access-now&quot; manifestation of the metadata layer combined with a &quot;generate-later&quot; manifestation that is implemented as ODI code. Red does allow live interaction with the data at every single point along the way, but that is certainly not the same thing.

It&#039;s a very interesting view into what may be coming. My concerns are really echos of what Adrian already mentioned. I wonder if a mapped-metadata layer can do the kind of cleaning and conforming that is needed for an EDW. It&#039;s certainly a logical possibility... but one that doesn&#039;t (as far as I know) exist in reality as of yet. I guess I need to roll-up my sleeves and learn OBIEE backwards and forwards... especially since it may make my skills irrelevant :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark:<br />
I agree with your points concerning the difference between the paradigm you described and the Wherescape one. And once again&#8230; what I know of the product is from the marketing guys combined with a project manager with very little technical information. Where it does resemble what you are describing a little closer is that the end result is a comprehensive metadata layer. For Red, that layer is manifested in terms of load routines&#8230; for OBIEE, it is a data access layer. You mentioned that perhaps OBIEE could offer both in the future&#8230; the &#8220;access-now&#8221; manifestation of the metadata layer combined with a &#8220;generate-later&#8221; manifestation that is implemented as ODI code. Red does allow live interaction with the data at every single point along the way, but that is certainly not the same thing.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a very interesting view into what may be coming. My concerns are really echos of what Adrian already mentioned. I wonder if a mapped-metadata layer can do the kind of cleaning and conforming that is needed for an EDW. It&#8217;s certainly a logical possibility&#8230; but one that doesn&#8217;t (as far as I know) exist in reality as of yet. I guess I need to roll-up my sleeves and learn OBIEE backwards and forwards&#8230; especially since it may make my skills irrelevant :-)</p>
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		<title>By: David Aldridge</title>
		<link>http://www.rittmanmead.com/2008/02/12/towards-a-future-oracle-bi-architecture/comment-page-1/#comment-4063</link>
		<dc:creator>David Aldridge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:32:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rittmanmead.com/wp2/2008/02/12/towards-a-future-oracle-bi-architecture/#comment-4063</guid>
		<description>What an excellent topic. &quot;...not quite knowing what to do next following all of Oracle’s acquisitions...&quot; seems to also be an issue that Oracle themselves are struggling with.

Knowing what direction to go down when you have Oracle DW, Hyperion Sys 9 and Siebel Analytics (OBIEE) all present in your organization is a tricky business, and with 11g the move is clearly towards db hosting for all data ... so where is Hyperion going? Hosting out of Oracle DB&#039;s in 11g, with MV-like refresh capabilities?

Some statements on medium and long-term strategy would be much appreciated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What an excellent topic. &#8220;&#8230;not quite knowing what to do next following all of Oracle’s acquisitions&#8230;&#8221; seems to also be an issue that Oracle themselves are struggling with.</p>
<p>Knowing what direction to go down when you have Oracle DW, Hyperion Sys 9 and Siebel Analytics (OBIEE) all present in your organization is a tricky business, and with 11g the move is clearly towards db hosting for all data &#8230; so where is Hyperion going? Hosting out of Oracle DB&#8217;s in 11g, with MV-like refresh capabilities?</p>
<p>Some statements on medium and long-term strategy would be much appreciated.</p>
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		<title>By: Stuart Wallace</title>
		<link>http://www.rittmanmead.com/2008/02/12/towards-a-future-oracle-bi-architecture/comment-page-1/#comment-4064</link>
		<dc:creator>Stuart Wallace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:38:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rittmanmead.com/wp2/2008/02/12/towards-a-future-oracle-bi-architecture/#comment-4064</guid>
		<description>Very useful article Mark that highlights an old issue.  How does commitment to the IT highlighted benefits of a Data Warehouse get cemented in to the Business?

It’s a typical scenario.  The Business approaches IT with the need for a reporting solution.  IT say ‘great, lets build a Data Warehouse’.  The Business says ‘fine, how long?’ and then faces fall at the answer.  ‘OK’, says IT, ‘how about we use the fine features of this new technology to deliver you a rapid application as a short term deliverable and work on the Data Warehouse solution afterwards?’.  ‘Excellent’ says IT.

A month or so of constructive co-operation between IT and the Business ensues, resulting in the delivery of a fast, seemingly complete, solution.

The Business is so happy that they bring forward a new requirement. ‘What about the Data Warehouse?’ asks IT.  ‘Why do we need that?’ says the Business. ‘The data we need is there, it’s fast and everyone can access it’.  ‘Oh but what about slowly changing dimensions, advanced aggregations and future manageability?’ pleads IT.  Business Eyes glaze over.

A bit simplistic for sure but reflective of many situations I’ve been in.  Now, don’t get me wrong, the Business pays so the Business rules but it does seem to me that IT have a stake in it’s success as well.  A more mature approach is required from both parties.  IT need to accept that not everything will end up in the DW (some requirements are just too short term) and the Business need to understand that the long term usage of a solution rely in cost effective, consistent warehousing solutions.  Flexibility is required from IT, whilst Fidelity is required from the Business.

Technology will help but it’s going to prove difficult for the DW to keep up with the rapid focus changes of the Business if they are designing their own solutions all the time.  A co-ordinated approach is still required.  I guess then, in answer to your post, I think that, yes, you can start off against source data but that, sooner or later, the need will arise for the Data Warehouse and that that need should be communicated to all at the start of development and the benefits to be gained reinforced throughout.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very useful article Mark that highlights an old issue.  How does commitment to the IT highlighted benefits of a Data Warehouse get cemented in to the Business?</p>
<p>It’s a typical scenario.  The Business approaches IT with the need for a reporting solution.  IT say ‘great, lets build a Data Warehouse’.  The Business says ‘fine, how long?’ and then faces fall at the answer.  ‘OK’, says IT, ‘how about we use the fine features of this new technology to deliver you a rapid application as a short term deliverable and work on the Data Warehouse solution afterwards?’.  ‘Excellent’ says IT.</p>
<p>A month or so of constructive co-operation between IT and the Business ensues, resulting in the delivery of a fast, seemingly complete, solution.</p>
<p>The Business is so happy that they bring forward a new requirement. ‘What about the Data Warehouse?’ asks IT.  ‘Why do we need that?’ says the Business. ‘The data we need is there, it’s fast and everyone can access it’.  ‘Oh but what about slowly changing dimensions, advanced aggregations and future manageability?’ pleads IT.  Business Eyes glaze over.</p>
<p>A bit simplistic for sure but reflective of many situations I’ve been in.  Now, don’t get me wrong, the Business pays so the Business rules but it does seem to me that IT have a stake in it’s success as well.  A more mature approach is required from both parties.  IT need to accept that not everything will end up in the DW (some requirements are just too short term) and the Business need to understand that the long term usage of a solution rely in cost effective, consistent warehousing solutions.  Flexibility is required from IT, whilst Fidelity is required from the Business.</p>
<p>Technology will help but it’s going to prove difficult for the DW to keep up with the rapid focus changes of the Business if they are designing their own solutions all the time.  A co-ordinated approach is still required.  I guess then, in answer to your post, I think that, yes, you can start off against source data but that, sooner or later, the need will arise for the Data Warehouse and that that need should be communicated to all at the start of development and the benefits to be gained reinforced throughout.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Rittman</title>
		<link>http://www.rittmanmead.com/2008/02/12/towards-a-future-oracle-bi-architecture/comment-page-1/#comment-4062</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Rittman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 07:46:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rittmanmead.com/wp2/2008/02/12/towards-a-future-oracle-bi-architecture/#comment-4062</guid>
		<description>@Stewart - yes, it does have some similarities to the Wherescape product, I stumbled across this a couple of weeks ago. I guess a major difference is that (to my eye) Wherescape still looks like it&#039;s a DW-driven product, even where it links in with Microstrategy - you build the DW first (albeit in a much faster, more productive way) and the tool then generates the BI metadata as part of the process, whereas the approach I&#039;m suggesting is driven by OBIEE - the end user defines the logical model, IT links it to the source systems and then either manually starts creating a warehouse and ETL routines to start persisting some, then all of the data in a warehouse or cube, perhaps in time OBIEE can automate this process, automatically generating a DW dimensional model or cube together with the ETL routines to populate it. The key here is to capture the knowledge and drive of the business users whilst still taking advantage, in time, of the scalability and performance of a single data warehouse or cube. It&#039;s an interesting comparison though, I&#039;ll work through the Wherescape online demo and take a closer look, especially as you say it&#039;s similar in concept to some of ODI.

@Adrian - another good point, and this of course is where the reality of corporate policies (only allowing access to data away from the source system and aggregated) and the difficulties of data aggregation (providing a single consistent data source when data is integrated as needed, and where you are constantly migrating source data into the warehouse) comes in. I guess  the &quot;single version of the truth&quot; issue can be addressed by providing all data access through the OBIEE semantic model - what the model points to over time may change, but at any one point, the Sales measure in the business model will provide the same results to all users of the system, whilst with performance, pointing directly towards the source systems is an interim step whilst the warehouse is created and populated, and users may be willing to put up with slow access to a particular subject area if it means they can get data much earlier than normal. Good points though, ones I&#039;ll need to address in the presentation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Stewart &#8211; yes, it does have some similarities to the Wherescape product, I stumbled across this a couple of weeks ago. I guess a major difference is that (to my eye) Wherescape still looks like it&#8217;s a DW-driven product, even where it links in with Microstrategy &#8211; you build the DW first (albeit in a much faster, more productive way) and the tool then generates the BI metadata as part of the process, whereas the approach I&#8217;m suggesting is driven by OBIEE &#8211; the end user defines the logical model, IT links it to the source systems and then either manually starts creating a warehouse and ETL routines to start persisting some, then all of the data in a warehouse or cube, perhaps in time OBIEE can automate this process, automatically generating a DW dimensional model or cube together with the ETL routines to populate it. The key here is to capture the knowledge and drive of the business users whilst still taking advantage, in time, of the scalability and performance of a single data warehouse or cube. It&#8217;s an interesting comparison though, I&#8217;ll work through the Wherescape online demo and take a closer look, especially as you say it&#8217;s similar in concept to some of ODI.</p>
<p>@Adrian &#8211; another good point, and this of course is where the reality of corporate policies (only allowing access to data away from the source system and aggregated) and the difficulties of data aggregation (providing a single consistent data source when data is integrated as needed, and where you are constantly migrating source data into the warehouse) comes in. I guess  the &#8220;single version of the truth&#8221; issue can be addressed by providing all data access through the OBIEE semantic model &#8211; what the model points to over time may change, but at any one point, the Sales measure in the business model will provide the same results to all users of the system, whilst with performance, pointing directly towards the source systems is an interim step whilst the warehouse is created and populated, and users may be willing to put up with slow access to a particular subject area if it means they can get data much earlier than normal. Good points though, ones I&#8217;ll need to address in the presentation.</p>
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		<title>By: Adrian Ward</title>
		<link>http://www.rittmanmead.com/2008/02/12/towards-a-future-oracle-bi-architecture/comment-page-1/#comment-4060</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrian Ward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 06:27:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rittmanmead.com/wp2/2008/02/12/towards-a-future-oracle-bi-architecture/#comment-4060</guid>
		<description>An inteeresting proposal that may be suitable for smaller more flexibe organisations.  One issue I see is access to information &#039;on the fly&#039;.   Many of the project I wok on ony allow data access out of hours, and only after aggregations have been built.

Another issue is performance, we often use datawarehouses to integrate data and appy the necessary structure (bitmaps, star schema, aggragates) to ensure that end user reports run quickly.  We are working with source dataabases that contain billions of records, which cannot be analysed by Analytics on the fly, and so we usually recommend going down the SAS route for detailed analysis, and aggregates into the warehouse for summary reporting.

Thirdly, we always need to ensure a single version of the truth.  For example, when sales managers get their Sales forecast reports for the weekly meeting with the team, everyone needs to have the same numbers.  This is best achieved by controlling the published data in the warehouse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An inteeresting proposal that may be suitable for smaller more flexibe organisations.  One issue I see is access to information &#8216;on the fly&#8217;.   Many of the project I wok on ony allow data access out of hours, and only after aggregations have been built.</p>
<p>Another issue is performance, we often use datawarehouses to integrate data and appy the necessary structure (bitmaps, star schema, aggragates) to ensure that end user reports run quickly.  We are working with source dataabases that contain billions of records, which cannot be analysed by Analytics on the fly, and so we usually recommend going down the SAS route for detailed analysis, and aggregates into the warehouse for summary reporting.</p>
<p>Thirdly, we always need to ensure a single version of the truth.  For example, when sales managers get their Sales forecast reports for the weekly meeting with the team, everyone needs to have the same numbers.  This is best achieved by controlling the published data in the warehouse.</p>
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		<title>By: Stewart Bryson</title>
		<link>http://www.rittmanmead.com/2008/02/12/towards-a-future-oracle-bi-architecture/comment-page-1/#comment-4065</link>
		<dc:creator>Stewart Bryson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 03:16:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rittmanmead.com/wp2/2008/02/12/towards-a-future-oracle-bi-architecture/#comment-4065</guid>
		<description>What you are describing in terms of the report now, build-later approach is what the Wherescape product Red claims to do, but I have only heard this from the marketing guys. I don&#039;t know if it really delivers on this promise. It&#039;s sort of ironic that the Wherescape folks considered their only real rival in this space to be Sunopsis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What you are describing in terms of the report now, build-later approach is what the Wherescape product Red claims to do, but I have only heard this from the marketing guys. I don&#8217;t know if it really delivers on this promise. It&#8217;s sort of ironic that the Wherescape folks considered their only real rival in this space to be Sunopsis.</p>
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